The latest blog comes on the back of a discussion I had with a avid rugby league fan in New Zealand. Its also a re-vamp of last years series of blogs on the 4 ways to fix International Rugby League. Originally I did this back in 2007 before the World Cup where there was a 10 year plan, it was in answer to what Richard Lewis and the “RLIF” had announced at the time with the lead up to the 2013 Rugby League world cup. Now with the current plan having run half way through its cycle, there is still no real idea on what is beyond 2013. Well, if I were in charge of the RLIF here is what I would do:
So this is nothing new, I have called for this many times over. Assuming that there are profits from the 2013 Rugby League World Cup in the United Kingdom, then the bulk of that money MUST, and I cannot stress enough, that it must go into professionalising, making full-time and fully independent. By doing this the RLIF can lobby sponsors and governments for money and then use that not only to fund the sport but to also fund regional development with regional federations such as the RLEF.
So in short the master plan start the year after the 2013, It really is a 4 year master plan but but goes through 3 cycles, however there is a second underhanded reason for making it 12 years and this will hopefully become clearer later:
There it is, as simple as that. With these tournaments and this schedule ALL nations in the world of Rugby League can compete on a near yearly basis in tournaments and qualifiers, have meaningful matches that mean something and can be used to build up the profile of the sport.
So here I will describe the tournaments in a bit of detail. Once again these are based on what I have written in the past so at the bottom I will have links to the past posts. The cornerstone in many ways of this plan I will outline is that every game counts, it counts to the World Cup, that teams that go through the progressive stages through to Finals stages, all are competing for ultimately a world cup spot. What this does is that players, because they are playing world cup qualifiers now, are locked into those nations for that four year cycle, at a minimum!
Regional Championships: These are spread over two years. Nations in regions are ranked, their ranking being based on official rankings that would come from the RLIF and regional federations, yes official rankings. The top 3/4 ranked nation and the hosts would have automatic qualification. In the first year, so 2014 in this case, nations ranked outside of these 3/4 would go through qualifiers that are tiered, and these would be populated by the lower ranked nations. Matches can be played in tournaments like the Euro shield to maintain the current traditions, or can be played through the year when dates can be arranged. This is sort of what soccer does and I think works well. in the second year, that is 2015, the Finals would be played. So the top 8 teams play out a championships with eventual semi-finals and final as well as a 3/4 play off, which actually is a crucial match. Why? Well the two finalists gain automatic qualification through to a 6 nations tournaments, while the winner of the 3/4 play off goes into a 3 way play off for two spots in the same 6 Nations. The loser of the 3/4 match goes into a 4 nations game.
The important thing with these tournaments is that all the nations play the regional championships to give them value and truly give all other nations a shot at the best nations and players. So Australia and New Zealand would play the Pacific Cup against Tong and PNG etc… the English and French would play the Welsh, or Russians. The Atlantic group would consist of 4 nations USA, Canada, Jamaica and South Africa.
6 and 4 Nations: Played in the third year of the cycle so this would be 2016. The 6 nations tournament I call the RLIF Cup and the 4 Nations tournaments I call the federation shield. The latter exists currently and so is a type of continuation of traditional tournaments. The RLIF Cup will have the two finalists from the European and Pacific Cup tournaments go through Automatically, while the final two positions would be a 3 way play-off between the winner of the Atlantic Cup and the 3rd placed teams from Europe and the Pacific. The Federation Shield would consist of the team that does not make the RLIF Cup as well as the 4th places team from Europe and the Pacific and the second placed team from the Atlantic.
Right here you see that we have two major tournaments with 10 teams from across the world involved. Now the Federation shield is not just some second tier tournament it has value. So all the nations in the RLIF Cup get automatic qualification to the World Cup and the two finalists of the Federation Shield also get automatic qualification into the world cup. So you can see that from the qualification process in the regional tourneys that teams can get World Cup qualification if they are consistently good. The beauty here is that both these tournaments can be played in the same place and be played as double headers.
World Cup Qualifiers: These are played over a two year period, while the regional finals are being played in that year the World Cup qualifiers for the nations that did not make it into the Regional finals start their World Cup campaigns. These continue the next year where the nations that don’t make the semis of the regional cups and the two teams from the federation shield can go in and still try to make the world cup through these qualifiers. These should be based on similar groups like in the soccer.
World Cup: This is the big one. With the 2013 World Cup having been 14 teams it only makes sense that we go to a 16 team competition after this. We need to have even groups without the Super group concept which only scurs many of the games… the point of these tournaments is that the new world nations play the top teams at the group stages. The whole attraction for nations like Tonga or Serbia to play is that they will get a shot at teams like Australia or England.
So the World Cup would have 4 groups of 4 teams. 8 teams get qualification through the RLIF Cup and Federation Shield, and the other 8 would be through the qualifiers. Each team in the group plays each other once in the group and the top two teams in each group go through to the quarter finals and then onto Semi Finals and Final. So all up you would have 31 matches played over 6 weekends. Its easy to see through all the tournaments and qualifiers that some nations would have the opportunity to play the top nation 3 out of the 4 years in the cycle!
What all this also does is that it allows nations who have ambitions to host the World Cup to prove themselves by hosting some of the other tournaments. Lets say that Papua new Guinea wants to host a World Cup one day, first they can host a Pacific Cup… well they have done that already, if that is considered a success then PNG can host a RLIF Cup and Federation Shield. If that is a successful tournaments then why not have a shot at hosting a World Cup. Lets have not only on the playing field encouragement for nations and players, but also lets give them incentives off the field as well!
I will say this now… tours are dead. They are an old archaic system of the old era when there literally were only 4 teams that played Rugby League and really serve nothing in the way of promoting the sport internationally. HOWEVER saying that I do recognise that many people still have longing for the old tour like the Ashes. In the master plan there still is room for these. This is where the 12 year cycle is seen to come into its own.
The chances are that England, Australia, France and New Zealand will be the nations that always get automatic qualification in the regional championships. This will give them the chance in the first year of the 4 year cycle to do tours. This is how I see the tours being done:
So in summary the master plan is a set of meaningful tournaments that all nations take part in. Full tours can be brought back in by the four traditional nations as well as giving all the New World Nations a shot at the big boys. Success gets rewarded and nations who want to host World Cups have a clear way to do that as well. As mentioned previously I have done posts on these last year and so below are the links to not only how the master plan works but also a simulation.
4 ways to fix international Rugby league Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4.
The simulation Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4.
There may be some differences in what I have above to what I had previously, this comes naturally as ideas develop, but the underlying, fundamental concepts are all still the same.
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simple, effective, entertaining – yes i love it
probablity of the current federation taking note – highly unlikely
The simple things in life are often the best… I tried to keep it simple yet give incentives for teams to progress through to the better tournaments.
Good post Druzik. It makes sense as teams would have ambitions to keep on going and have something higher to aim for. I think the reason Soccer is the global sport is because it not only gives teams the chance to take on the big guys but it has a system that builds up anticipation for up and coming tournaments. Oh it RL could do the same…
Thanks
Yes basically I have tried to base it on what soccer has but with that little added incentive with basically all matches being the WC qualifiers. this way you are able to keep the number of games played a year to a reasonable level so the wear and tear on bodies is not as great.
With leagues physicality. it cant do the 2-3 matches a week that soccer sometimes demands on players.
It all makes so much sense. What do you see as the hurdles of implementing such a plan? Is it the cost of running the tournaments? Or NRL and ESL standing in the way? Or something else??
Well ESL and NRL should not be an issue since all these matches can be played in the regular 6-8 week window at the end of the seasons. Probably only France, Lebanon and South Africa may have problems since their seasons run out of sync with the rest of the world… but they have not seemed to have issues so far with matches.
Money will always be an issue… I have in the past done a costing for it in terms of what it would cost say to pay prize money… but its hard to know without exact stadium fees etc in each country. But a rough figure of about $20 million over the 4 years is doable. roughly 1/2 of that should be on Prize monies and the other on stadia, hotels and travel.
I do know that the Australian Uni tour to SA last year for a touring party of 30, for a 1.5 week 3 match series cost about $60,000 Australian… we could use that as a bench mark I guess.
But I will try and do a rough costing at the least in the next week or so and do another blog post on it…. there are a couple more pending issues to write about till then however.
some great ideas once again, have you ever been able to send some of your ideas through to the rlif headqaurters? if so have they ever replied? . I’m so glad that i stumbled on to your website it is refreshing to see that there are alot of people out there who care about the international game & are willing to put there thoughts out there for discussion I don’t understand how so many people can come up with creative ways to improve the international game yet the people in charge of the game can’t or take to long to implement them.
Glad that you enjoy the site.
I have the radio show now also on Tuesday nights and its open to people coming on and discussing thing on there and ideas on international rugby league.
Yes I have pitched the idea to a couple of people, but it was hard to gauge their reaction to it. So yeah… I just plug along I suppose.
love your work as always!
only thing i would change (very minute detail too ) is for atlantic and MENA to have direct qualification into 6N instead of playoff against 3rd european and pacific countries…give them the direct chance to stepup…so 2 auto qualifications from europe and pacific and 1 from each of atlantic and MENA.
that being said…love your vision, and the insight you have. got get ‘em!
Eventually yes, I think you are right, we can go with direct entry, but to start with I am not sure the Atlantic and MENA teams are quite there yet… maybe the USA and Lebanon are… but I would like to see them earn their place in the pre tournament first.
There is another reason I do this too. The Atlantic cup at the moment only consists of 3 teams maybe 4 when Canada start playing internationals again. This only gives the nations really 2-3 games where as in the Pacific and European Cups nations will get 5 matches. Having this small qualifier gives those nationbs a bit more of playing time.
The other incentive is that the 3rd place match gets more of an incentive as those teams aren’t just playing for a spot in the lower tier tournament, but are still playing for a potential shot at the RLIF cup, so there is meaning to that match, by winning through they get to plat against the major teams and qualify to the WC but even if they don’t, they have a chance, albeit a smaller one being a finalist in the 4 Nations and getting a WC spot.
These can be tweaked around though in terms of the format… I did have another idea last night that improves the federation shield while still maintaining the same 4 year structure.
I think a plan is a good thing and having fulltime roles in the federations to do as you say promote and lobby a must.
However the thing missing in your plan is tradition. Building tradtitions and rivalries is a must.
For that I say bring back 3 test “ashes” tours, but you are right tours are archaic, these need to be played over 3 weeks and be done quickly. Every 4 years in between World Cups.
Also there needs to be some tradition built in Europe…. How I am not sure but the French and the Welsh are in a good position to develop that rivalry.
In the pacific PNG needs to develop an enemy and I think it should be a combined Pacific side, that will help them progress as most of the Pac guys will come from the NRL but I doubt they would have the passion of the Kumuls so might generate a real SOO type feel.
I think a plan is a good thing and having fulltime roles in the federations to do as you say promote and lobby a must.
Yes, if we are to comepete in anyway on the international stage then we must have a full-time, independent RLIF board.
However the thing missing in your plan is tradition. Building tradtitions and rivalries is a must.
For that I say bring back 3 test “ashes” tours, but you are right tours are archaic, these need to be played over 3 weeks and be done quickly. Every 4 years in between World Cups.
Rivalries will build up over time however, but we already have some great rivalries in the sport, England/Australia, Australia/NZ, Tonga/Samoa, France/England etc… even Wales/Scotland and Wales/England are pretty hard games. As I had down the bottom there is room for the tours, but in reality you want to be inclusive of as many nations as possible and tournaments are the only way to do this. In soccer one of the biggest rivalries is Ebgland/Germany, but they only play once every so often and in some ways that is what makes those games special, they do only come round occasionally and those games then are played hard, similar would happen here I would say.
Also there needs to be some tradition built in Europe…. How I am not sure but the French and the Welsh are in a good position to develop that rivalry.
See right here you have already forgotten about some of the other nations. Germany/Czechs is a big rivalry as is Italy/Serbia. Lebanon/Ireland has grown to be a decent match up too over the years. Ukraine and Latvia also are starting to build a rivalry, yes these are annual tournaments that allow it, but we wont get any more if we don’t start exposing nations more and more. France and Wales just have to play more games against each other and other nations. It will all come together, we can’t force rivalries either, they need to develop over time organically.
In the pacific PNG needs to develop an enemy and I think it should be a combined Pacific side, that will help them progress as most of the Pac guys will come from the NRL but I doubt they would have the passion of the Kumuls so might generate a real SOO type feel.
PNG already has some good match ups with Australia and Fiji. I am surprised the Kiwis don’t play them more often like the Aussies do. I am not in favour of combined sides at all. They are not national teams, they are just a bunch of players thrown together. May as well just have barbarian teams all round. No, let teams play their best national sides and go from there, you’ll be surprised at how good some of these nations can be.
there is a rivalry whenever we play samoa,tonga,fiji,cookislands (we want to be the dominant side in the pacific cup ) or the pm13 your right that nz should play us more we should all play against eachother more considering the short distance between us all i think besides when we played nz in the worldcup 08 i think we hadn’t played them for ten years or so that’s way too long. how can i tune into the radio program also my friends back home say there is talk of usa tomahawk coming to play png residents team and samoa do you know anything about this
There you go, we have rivalries right there for you and the Pacific nations.
Yes Agree, Australia and the Kiwis SHOULD have played more tests against you, its the only way that any team can progress. You only imporve by playing and learning from the best.
The details for the radio program can be found on the World League link and also you can listen in at http://www.hkcradio.com
I have not heard anything about the tomahawks, but I will ask David Niu about it. Samoa also, I’ll see what I can find out.
I spoke to David Nui last night and asked him about the match and he said that he knows nothing of it…. though its a juicy prospect. But he certainly is not in negotiations with PNGRFL. He has a full schedule this year already with the Atlantic Cup and a couple one off tests against Italy and Tonga I believe.
But it would be great for PNG to get at least a warm up match against someone before the 4N, maybe Fiji or Samoa would be good.
Thanks for taking the time to follow that up much apreciated the pngrfl are trying to get some warm up matches but unless they were to be played after the nrl season it would be the residents side (a side made of all local players) as the players abroad are tied up in the english sl and div 1 comps and nrl Qcup in aus . if there was a vote for someone to be admited to a position in the rlif you would get my vote hands down and no doubt many others aswell keep up the Great work have told other kumuls fans in aus of your site i’m sure they will give it a look once again thankyou
Do you have a contact or website for the PNGRFL… the old one does not get used anymore it seems… I think David may be keen to do something with the Kumuls. Probably a residents team would be a better match for the Tomahawks, though I would still expect the Kumuls to belt the Americans.
Thanks for the vote… if only the fans were able to vote the board in.
Thanks, am glad that I can provide a service for all of you.
the pngrfl chairman is gary juffa he runs the kumuls facebook page can be contacted thrugh that or his own face book page garry juffa pngrfl deputy chairman is brian kramer can be contacted the same way also phone contact can be made through the international directory pngrfl they were both in the country not so long ago holding talks with mal meninga and qrl man ross livermore and are organiseing for png junior kumuls to play in the queensland junior comps cyril conel cup u 16 & mal meninga cup u 18 they will be playing hopefully in the northen conference against nq cowboys cairns centrel qld and others I think david nuie does some corespondence through facebook would be great for both the tomahawks and png residents if something can happen down the track david nuie does some fantastic work for his national team .I have listened to some previus radio programs of yours and chris top program how can i listen to some more recent ones how do i contact the show with a coment if the need arises and can you give updates on the png national comp please I have trouble getting regular results from home
So there are details at http://www.rugbyleagueinternationalscores.com/blog/index.php/worldleague/ on how to contact the show and call in.
I’ll jump on the facebook site and have a look, thanks for that info.
Well hopefully down the track there will be tournaments where teams from all around the world can play each other on a regular basis.
GREAT BRITAIN SHOULD BE TOURING AUSTRALIA,NEW ZEALAND AND PNG IN 2012 A YEAR OUT FROM THE WORLD CUP AND IT’S ALMOST 20 YEARS SINCE THEY LAST TOURED AND IT’S WELL OVERDUED
It is true that the last Ashes tour to Australia was in 92 if I remember correctly, but the reason the next three were overseas is that crowds were not coming to the game here in Australia and it seems to still be like that.
The “luster” of Origin these days overshadowed anything in League in Australia.
Would a tour bring it back… I am not sure… I think tournaments are the way of the future.
WHEN THE AMERICANS CAME TO AUSTRALIA IN 2000 THEY PLAYED BEFORE 7500 CROWD IN LISMORE AND WHEN THEY PLAYED SOUTH SYDNEY AT THEIR SPIRITUAL HOME THE REDFERN OVAL OVER 20000 TURNED UP DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE YANKS WERE LAUGHED OUT OF TOWN LOSING HEAVILY TO THE BUNNIES.AT LEAST IT WAS DIFFERENT.
Not sure what your point is…
Both the USA and Lebanon got over 22,000 crowds (25k for USA and 23k for Lebanon IIRC). I was there for both games and went to most of their promotional games they did at Redfern while kicked out… Both were great matches despite the scorelines.
They had lots of support because of the the fact the Bunnies had been kicked out and also they were warm up matchs for the WC that was coming up, with lots of NRL players involved as well. It was about the time of the Rally through Sydney as well, which I was at, a lot of people were angry and were spurred on to go and suport the club.
I dont think the Americans were laughed out of town, I remember being in the Leagues Club after the match talking with a few old supporters and jurnos, they were impressed that the sport was played over there at all and had a few decent players. They already had a large number of American Born players.
I UNDERSTAND THAT SOUTHS WEREN’T IN THE NRL AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME BUT THE POINT IS THAT OUTSIDE THE NRL COMP WHAT IS THERE FOR THE PLAYERS TO ASPIRE TO.THERE IS NO NSW RESIDENT SIDE OR OUEENSLAND RESIDENT SIDE FOR THAT MATTER LET ALONE AN AUSTRALIAN RESIDENCE SIDE AS WELL.THE GAP BETWEEN THE NRL AND THE LOCAL COMPETITIONS IS JUST TOO BIG LIKE IT IS HERE IN NZ BECAUSE TOURING SIDES HAVEN’T TOURED AUSTALASIA FOR YEARS AND YEARS.AUCKLAND RUGBY LEAGUE HAVE GOT PLENTY OF MONEY IN THE BANK TO SEND A TEAM TO MARS AND BACK BUT AREN’T INTERSTED IN EXPANSION AND HAVING TOURS FOR THE PLAYERS THAT PLAYED IN OUR LOCAL CLUB COMPETITIONS.IT’S NO USE HAVING A STRONG RIGHT ARM[THE WARRIORS]IF YOU HAVEN’T GOT A STRONG LEFT ARM[THE LOCAL COMP].WE NEED TO PICK A AUCKLAND REP SIDE TO PLAY THE LIKES OF GB,PNG,FRANCE,TONGA OR WHO EVER IF WE ARE GOING TO ENCOURAGE GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE LOCAL COMPETITIONS HERE IN AUCKLAND AS WELL AS THE REST OF THE COUNTRY BUT THIS IS JUST NOT HAPPENING AT ALL BECAUSE HERE IT IS ALL ABOUT ONE TEAM THE WARRIORS AND NOTHING ELSE.HAVE A LOOK AT THE LOCAL FOX MEMORIAL COMPETITION ON MAORI TV DANIEL.IT IS PATHETIC TO SAY THE LEAST.IS IT RUGBY LEAGUE OR MUD WRESTLING. THE KANGAROOS WOULD BEAT A AUCKLAND SIDE BY A 150 NIL AND THE ADMINISTRATORS AT AUCKLAND RUGBY LEAGUE COULDN’T CARE LESS BECAUSE THEY’RE TOO BUSY COUNTING THE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS THEY HAVE IN THE BANK,MONEY THAT THE CLUBS OF AUCKLAND ACTUALLY OWN,NONE OF WHICH EVERS FILTERS BACK DOWN TO THE GRASSROOTS.THAT’S WHY THE GAME IN AUCKLAND GOES NO WHERE.
There are QLD residents and NSW Residnets sides. As there are NT, Vic, SA and WA rep teams that play in their own state of origin style tournaments. From there The Australian Affiliated States team is chosen and do annual tours of the Pacific Ialands (they toured this year already.
You have to realise that the Australian sport Psyche is similar to that of the USA, its and elitist one, not like in Europe where you have P&R.
Tours just dont do anything any more, of course the Kangaroos would beat and Auckland side, you expect that. Gone are the days when everyone were semi pro and things were more even. We now have Fully pro teams coming up against semi pro and amateur teams… so yeah its not going to happen any more. The Kangaroos should be left to playing internationals these days and not clubs. Let clubs do tours of other clubs if they want, Everton did this in soccer recently, I have no issue with that, but ethe National team should be left to playing National sides.
How do you bring up the Auckland/NZ domestic comps well not sure there, I am not totally up to speed there.
… and Tonga etc… will grow when you have them in tournaments playing the top nations.
I’d rather see Tonga play the Kangaroos in a Tournament than Auckland in a tour that does nothing.
TALKING ABOUT RIVALRIES WHAT HAPPENED TO RUSSIA V TATARSTAN AS WELL AS GEORGIA V RUSSIA IN RUGBY LEAGUE DANIEL??ALSO IT’S HIGH TIME THAT WE REVITALISE THE USA AND RUSSIA GAME ON A ANNUAL BASIS.
TOURS MADE MONEY FOR THE NZRL AND GOT OUR COUNTRY AFLOAT FOR 4 YEARS AT A TIME MONEY THAT WENT BACK DOWN TO THE GRASSROOTS UNTIL THE COWBOYS AND COWGIRLS CAME INTO IT IN ABOUT 1992.FROM THERE IT WENT PAIRSHAPE.INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL MAKES MONEY FOR THE GAME.THE NRL AND SUPERLEAGUE MAKES NOTHING FOR THE GAME.AND WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM TO FINANCE FUTURE TOURNAMENTS,FROM THE TREES
SEE HOW MANY TURN UP AT WELLINGTON WHEN TONGA PLAY ENGLAND LATER ON THIS YEAR.I DON’T THINK THE GATE WILL BREAK EVEN AND AUSTRALIA HAS NEVER,EVER PLAYED TONGA.AUCKLAND HAS GOT A GREAT RECORD AGAINST INTERNATIONAL SIDES AND HAVE BEATEN AUSTRALIA,GB AND FRANCE ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS NO DIFFERENT THAN SAY NEWCASTLE AND ILLAWARRA IN AUSTRALIA
YOU NEED A NEW ZEALAND REIDENCE TEAM GOING TO TONGA,SAMOA,COOKS, FIJI,PNG,NSW,QUEENSLAND,USA,RUSSIA,ASIA,FRANCE TO BRING THE LOCAL GAME BACK UP TO SPEED.WE ALSO NEED TO PLAY SL SIDES AS WELL,THE LIKES OF SAY LEEDS,ST HELENS,WARRINGTON,BRADFORD,WIGAN,HULL AND HULLKR.PUTTING ALL OUR EGGS IN THE ONE BASKET THE NSWPREMIER LEAGUE COMP IS A WASTE OF TIME BECAUSE IT HAS NO FOLLOWING,GETS NO CROWDS,THERE’S ALSO NO MEDIA COVERAGE,ETC,ETC.IT’S A DEAD LOSS AND A WASTE OF RESOURCES.IT’S AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THE CODE AND SOME OFFICIALS ARE ONLY USING IT AS A MEAL TICKET ESPECIALLY HERE IN AUCKLAND THE USUAL CLICK OF THE TICKET IF YOU LIKE.